Earlier this week, the Riga City Council disallowed gay, lesbian and transgender community to march through the streets of Latvia’s capital as they did last year. The group appealed the decision in court, which yesterday upheld the city’s decision.
The march was not to be.
Instead, the representatives of sexual minorities gathered for a worship service in an Anglican church in the Old Riga and a celebration inside Hotel Latvia in the city center. Much like a poor performance of a theater troupe, and even though the time for the worship service moved from 11 to 10 in the morning, participants of the services suffered under the bombardment of eggs and rotten tomatoes.
To put it in the words of Latvia’s Foreign Minister Artis Pabriks, “I am ashamed… for what’s going on in Latvia today.”
Perhaps, by looking at the way today’s events unfolded one draws the unfortunate conclusion that the Riga City Council made the right decision to disallow the march for the sake of peace and stability, if that was indeed its motivation. One can only imagine what would have happened during the actual march.
With today’s events, it is very tempting to see this issue in black and white colors, as if only two sides to this issue are possible. On the one hand, Latvia’s homosexuals want to celebrate their sexual diversity, be recognized as a part of the society, and be accepted for who they are. On the other hand, the intolerant Latvian society does not want to allow gays and lesbians to have any rights.
But the issue is much more complicated than that. It expands beyond the issue of gay and lesbian community and points fingers directly at the Latvian culture itself. One could blame it on the 50 years of Societ oppression. One could say, the Soviet mentality is still alive and well within the Latvian psyche. And this is why the Western Latvians, such as a former ambassador of Latvia in the U.S. Ojars Kalninsh, are advocating for tolerance within the Latvian society for gays and lesbians. On the other hand, home bred Latvians, including ubernationalist forces, resort to the means of spoiled eggs and tomatoes to make their point.
But taking this event along with the events at the hockey arena this spring, when Latvian fans stalled the game when they threw objects onto the arena, the intolerance and obvious closed-mindedness run much deeper inside the Latvian — and admitedly Russian — psyche. As someone once said, this week, Latvia drew closer to Moscow than it did to Brussels.
FYI- I am one of the property managers of the properties where the anti-gay protesters decided to gather after some of the Reval pro-gay deligation decided to have a drink. About a 100 thugs showed up threating my clients. What was most unbelievable was how long it took for us to convince the police that they should intervene. I was both very ashamed to be a Latvian today but also very proud (as a side note I am not gay). After today, Makss, I have 0 patients for your anti-tolerance comments and the thugs you indirectly support- in the US it’s call the 1st amendment. It’s worth dying for fyi.
1: “On the other hand, the intolerant Latvian society does not want to allow gays and lesbians to have any rights.” What utter crap! Homosexuals have the same rights as everybody else. So do hetrosexuals who do not wish their young children to see these people parading and flaunting themselves throught the streets on a summer Saturday afternoon as if it were normal. What they do behind closed doors is their matter. What they do in public is the matter of everybody.
2: For the first time in many years the ethnic Latvia and ethnic Russian popultions have come together in a common course (the course of morality and common decency) – and that cannot be bad.
3: Yes, in this instance Latvia is closer to Moscow than the ultra-liberal west where anything goes.
4: Finally – I do not understand why the parade was called Riga Pride! How can one be proud of being an homosexual – to be proud of something one has to achieve something and as they tell us they were born like it they have achieved zilch and therefore it is most illogical for them to say they are proud.
“in the US it’s call the 1st amendment.”
Maybe you should take another look at the US constitution:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/
Where does it say anything about protecting the priviliges of “sexual minorities”?
“It’s worth dying for fyi.”
Then next time instead of complaining about it on a blog, why don’t you pick a fight with those gay-bashing bullies who trashed your store?
Over the past year, I have discussed this topic with Makss. I am tired of it and shall no longer do so. Although I believe that Makss has every right to express himself and live here in Latvia (I would actually vigously defend him if someone tried to take that away), I personally wish that you would leave and go back to England or wherever you are from. I understand that you are too old to change, so let us, the new young generation of liberal, tolerance Latvians, sort this country out.
Seymour- I did pick a fight with all of those bullies- a pretty good one too. I also took all of their pictures and was asked by the government to send them to them as they are compiling a database (probably not worth much practically, but it’s the thought that counts). Although it was a bit tense for a while, the police finally showed up in huge numbers and where very helpful- I commend them for that. The acting prime minister, Aigars Stockenbergs, even came to check up on us. Although the government and the President (I am very dissappointed by her non-action) should have been more pro-active before the event, it was a nice guesture that Mr. Stockenbergs showed up. I think next summer things will be completely different.
Makss: “What utter crap! Homosexuals have the same rights as everybody else.”
Please keep my comments in the context. I said it’s easy to see the issue as two-sided, black and white. I didn’t say whether the argument is valid.
Today it’s a gay parade, tomorrow exhibionist parade and next week you’ll have a pedophile party like in the netherlands
is it necessary that these people harrass innocent latvians with their sexual orientation?
So sad to return after a weekend in the country (Stikli) and see that Latvia is still rolling in the mud. It is embarassing.
Sorry, but when people are not allowed to publicly acknowledge (not even say it)significant aspects of their being, then society is not fully according them the rights that they have as human beings. Rights are not granted- they exist and need only be recognized by society and govt.
Homosexuality may be a minority sexual orientation but it is not abnormal in the sense of pathology. Most gay friends of mine are as embarrassed by the flaunters at these parades as anybody else. Fact is that there are outliers in any group- someone always acts a bit stupid. When people are being denied the rights to fully participate in society (and make no mistake, to be publicly gay in LV is to look to lose jobs etc) then they need to agitate for acceptance and help from society and government. That is all the parade and activities are about.
This LV society scares me. I listen on the trams in the morning and hear such absurdities as “Americans have classes in homosexuality in their schools” – I must have missed those days in school. Also, homosexuality and pedophilia are equated. As I recall, most pedophilia is man-girl- damn heterosexuals! It also seems that the biggest sexual problem facing the Baltics is not homos but heteros- witness the recent busts of people selling women into sexual slavery for Italy.
Finally, lord knows if I wanted to choose between countries to live in based on standard of living I would choose the “anything goes west”. Look carefully at the standards of living in intolerant places vs. tolerant places. The contrast is telling. The more people are and feel included in society, the freer they are to fully contribute and build a place that supports everyone and their aspirations and lives.
Makss,
1.Gays/Lesbians dont have the same rights as everyone in Latvia. Didnt you read about leaving homosexuals of the anti-discrimination bill? Do you want any more examples? Spousal/partner laws arent in the same for homsexuals. How many more examples would you like before you might start thinking about retracting this statement?
2. Yes Makss Im sure Latvians & Russian coming together over hate, vilification and intolerance is a wonderful thing….oh and also plastic bags full of sh*t throwing is another warm and tender moment Im sure both Latvians and Russians will remember with fond memories! Wake up!!! to use that as an example of a good that has come out of this week is ridiculous.
3. Coming from you any move towards Moscow I assumed would draw an unwanted response. So the move towards Moscow is a good thing now?
4. “to be proud of something one has to achieve something and as they tell us they were born like it they have achieved zilch and therefore it is most illogical for them to say they are proud.”
Makss go back and read your wonderfully logical reasoning and look for some logic in what you say. Who said and what dictionary have you been reading to say that pride is about what you achieved? Pride can also be about who you are . Are you proud to be Latvian? You were born Latvian (were you?) so have you achieved zilch?? And the rest of your statement I cant even counteract with an example because it makes NO sense.
The pride is all about WHO they are.
Proud to have the guts in such an intolerant society to say they are gay and demand to live the same as you or I.
I am ashamed at how Latvian society has reacted and I am ashamed that we have that same reaction here in these comments.
Latvia truly has a Human Rights’ problem concerning the civil rights of the LGBT, and the country walks a very fine line as regards international law.
Thus, discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation is prohibited by the European Convention on Human Rights.
The same applies to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, as interpreted by the United Nations’ Human Rights Committee.
The bottom line is that the LGBT have the same rights to exercise their civil rights as does anyone else. As long as those rights are not upheld and reinforced by the Latvian government, the country is in breach of the international law code regulating human rights and freedoms. This is a very serious matter, which Latvian politicians must address if they do not want their country to become a pariah of Europe.
What is happening in Latvia with the banning of this gay pride is quite disgusting.
It is shameful what has become of Latvia, and it is even more shameful that the European Union is doing absolutely nothing about it. If Latvia wants to maintain it’s “Latvian national identity” and homophobic attitudes, then it can bloody hell get out of the EU.
I just feel sorry for those Latvians (and I suppose there are many of them) who support the idea of a united, prosperous Europe where freedom and democracy reign.
PS: I don’t understand how all of these attitudes are tolerated in Latvia. I mean, Romania, where I live, isn’t the most gay-friendly place on earth, but at least the gay pride was allowed and heavily protected by the police, and no politician would be tolerated in making the anti-gay statements I have heard some Latvian politicians making.
>the idea of a united, >prosperous Europe
so europe needs a gay parade to become united? No one is making anti-homosexual statements but why cant gay people just have sex at home like other people also do? Why do they need to run around naked on the streets and make obscene gestures. Is this the promotion of european or is it perverted?
I don’t see how you can pick sides, Mihai. If pro-gay organizations have the inherent right to speak for gay marriage, etc., surely the same right belongs to those who oppose it. If Europe is united based on its attitude toward gay alone, perhaps, Latvia should get out. In reality though, different European countries have different attitudes towards gay and lesbians.
Because both sides have the right to protest and have their voices heard, the question here is the attitude of those who are pro-family values and those who support gay rights. It’s the inhumane treatment of your opponents, that’s my problem.
Politicians can and will say homophobic things, which is fine. As long as they don’t advocate violence and war, they have a right to do so. The electorate has the right to watch and vote for them accordingly.
Aleks,
I don’t think that “picking a side” really has anything to do with it. My understanding is that the anti-gay side (I won’t say “pro-family” because everybody is part of a family. One definition of family does not fit-all) was organized to deny gay folks the right to even express a view. No one on the “gay side” ever said that other folks should be denied the right to an opinion.
Gay groups are simply asking that Latvia put into force what they agreed to when the joined the EU.
Europe is united (I think) on the basis of support for rights for all. Gay people are not asking for special rights, simply that the right to live, love, work etc. be respected. No one is talking about sex in the streets.
I guess that I really do not at all understand the people who oppose the recognition of the rights of gay people. On what basis do we deny people the right to work, education etc?
I personally don’t see what the problem with gay marriage is, but if it makes you squeamish, okay. As far as adoption goes… get a grip. What is the fear? People who are gay and in strong relationships make good parents, just like heteros. Heteros beat kids, sexually abuse kids and neglect kids. Maybe we are the ones who shouldn’t be parents.
“inhumane treatment of opponents”? How? What exactly did the people on the gay side do that was inhumane? Who threw the shit?
The inhumane treatment of opponents refered to those protesting against the event. They threw the shit.
I don’t think Latvia joined the EU thinking about the equal rights. Nor do you in fact have equal rights in Latvia, starting from Russian-speaking non-citizens (who, granted, have an opportunity to gain full rights) to different races, religions (Krishna are tolerated because of their good works) and representatives of different sexual orientation.
There’s work in abundance for those who hope to bring truly equal rights to Latvia.
So this isn’t just about gay issues any more, really.
But my above comment refered to the anti-gay people have the right to express their views as much as anyone else. It’s when the argument escalates into a fight, that’s when I have a problem.
Aleks,
Sorry. Latvia cannot pick and choose why they joined the EU. Either you accept the whole package or get out.
If, de facto, rights are not equal then their is lots of room for work. The correct forum is in the legislature, courts and in peaceful protest. That is what the gay folks wanted to do. They were denied.
You simply set-up a straw man by bringing up unacknowledged or unrealized rights for others. Their is no connection save to say that all should have equal rights to full participation. Basically the argument escalated into a fight when the anti-gay folks brought out their foul t-shirts, shit and lies. You cannot blame the gay side for this fight.
“I don’t think Latvia joined the EU thinking about the equal rights.” My point is that it should’ve. It’s very easy to look at the EU as a “cash cow” that gives you international exposure and transfer payments. Europe also has, however, a greater political role that seeks to bring about equal rights for all. The EU must pressure Latvia to take care of these rights, in the same way that it must pressure Poland, in the same way that it must pressure Greece to allow proselytism, etc.
I think we agree on this point: I would have absolutely nothing against a straight-pride march, or a pro-family march. The problem is that the anti-gay protesters want to actively deny other people’s rights, and say hateful things about them, things which are unacceptable in a democratic society. The EU should be neither explicitly anti-gay or pro-gay, but rather it should support equal rights. A gay parade does not violate absolutely anybody else’s rights (gay parades are not heterophobic, they are not even critical of religion).
The way I look at it: from one side, all I see are rainbow flags, pride, hope, perseverence and positivity. From the other all I see is hate, violence, negativity. This isn’t even about tolerance anymore. It’s about how humans can be so bloody hateful in the face of such a positive attitude on behalf of the LGBT community. I, for one, admire them greatly and stand by their cause. To the future!
While I deplore the violence I think Latvians should be proud that they are still willing to stand up for their culture and national identity rather than letting it be destroyed by multi-culturism like has happened in most of Europe and the US. As a visitor here it is one of the things I respect most about Latvia.
I really don’t get your comment. What has national identity got to do with homosexuality? Do you honestly believe that homosexuality is a “Western trait”? Are human rights and equality against Latvian “national identity”? Homosexuality is truly something global, universal, without national boundaries, having existed throughout history. It’s like saying that a country shouldn’t give women the right to vote or equal pay because it goes against “national identity”.
I think this issue will only be understood more when Latvians will realise that gay rights are not “Western cultural imperialism” and are not the imposition of exclusively “Western” values. And I thought back in 2004 (EU accession) Latvia was boasting about how it had traditionally been part of “the West”, and was “rejoining” its European family. Has that all changed now? And if this really is about Latvian national identity, then why is it that a significant proportion of the anti-gay protesters were ethnic Russian?
Latvia banned the homosexuals from marching because the majority did not want them to march. That is democracy! The will of the majority. Why should the majority have to give way to the minority? Sadly the Left has its own idea of what democracy means. Another thing why do the Left always call those who disagree with them fascist? When they resort to calling people names is when they lose the argument! And as to the person who wishes I would leave Latvia – well, whoever you are hiding behind a nom de plume there are a hell of a lot of Latvians (ethnic Latvians and ethnic Russians – including the readers of a certain national newspaper for whom I write a weekly column) who are delighted that I am here.
Actually Makss the march was banned for safety reasons. Whether you disagree or agree that is the reason.
If democracy was a simple matter of majority rule we would all be in trouble. Imagine a time when the majority felt that all jews should be killed, that blacks should be slaves, that …..
Democracy really means that rights triumph. To believe that is not necessarily a leftist position. Witness the Libertarian positions in the usa- basically, leave us alone!
No one is saying that you must be gay, only that gay people have the same rights as anyone else. Remember that being gay is about sexuality not politics. The Log Cabin Republicans are a group of gay conservatives!
As far as calling names… it isn’t like the people on the Riga’s pride side have a lock on name calling. I think that the folks standing outside of the Reval and the Anglican Church were not exactly a quiet lot.
Doesn’t particularly matter to me if you stay or don’t. I find some of your historical stuff in English to be interesting and fun, I find your politics sad. To each his own.
But surely you realise, Makss, that true democracy (in the technical sense of the word) is nothing more than mob rule? Latvia, like other free nations around the world, is a democracy, but it is a constitutional state of where there is rule of law, with all of its checks and balances, and where there should be this idea of respect for human rights and civil liberties. That’s really what a “democracy” is about in the general sense of the word. It’s not about justifying any decision just because the majority wants it. If all ethnic Latvians were to decide to kill all ethnic Russians in Latvia, would that be justifiably “democratic” under your interpretation?
The whole point of a modern free nation is to enhance as much as possible to standards of living and rights of all citizens, regardless of their differences. It is definitely not to advantage a nominal majority at the disadvantage of the minority.
I fully agree with Mihai—one of the best gauges of democracy is how minorities are treated, and the majority riding roughshod over minorities is not democracy. Democracy depends upon protections provided by the law under the rule of law, institutions that function properly and transparently, and many another factor—at least as much as it is dependent upon the narodnaya volya. Most of the Latvians I know were shocked by the level of venom evident last summer—this summer was a complete débâcle. That some can take heart in the sense that intolerant Latvians and Russians have finally found common ground is not heartening in the least—it is rather sickening, actually, that bigots have found such a seductive chord at last. The ejaculations of many netizens pool into a lake of bile, as easily turned against other races, other ethnicities, and other mentalities as they are against those of another sexual orientation. And so the red-brown part of the spectrum thickens.
Mihai, there are many people in Latvia who are revolted by what is happening, and people like the President, the Foreign Minister, and a couple of dozen leading intellectuals have spoken out. Let us see where the feeble structures of a weak democracy lead us—I can’t agree with Tom Shmit when he suggests that we “get out”; getting more in is the preferable path, in my opinion. The EU is not as important as the CoE in this instance—the highest court in Latvia tends to uphold principles, even, and the avenues of legal (and even political?) recourse are anything but exhausted.
O vile hybrid flower, in which people who detest democracy can join hands—homo sovieticus with ulmanisti, far right with far left, blood in feces. If Makss did better research, he would discover that the earliest proponents of Latvian nationhood were at least as concerned with the type of democracy Latvia needs as they were with “democracy,” a word that has been abused very hard for a very long time.
Vysu lobu,
/P
P.S. Mihai—“no politician would be tolerated in making the anti-gay statements I have heard some Latvian politicians making” in Romania? A Hungarian friend of mine in Cluj-Napoca would strongly disagree…
PÄ“teri,
Just for the record- I do not advocate getting out. I was simply suggesting that being a part of the EU means accepting the whole, or failing that, to work to change things. I agree that the democratic structures in LV should make decisions. These decisions are difficult, but there are models for political courage throughout the world.
“A Hungarian friend of mine in Cluj-Napoca would strongly disagree…”
Well, I’m not trying to put down Latvia, since in Romania homophobia is also very apparent. But I think on an official level, homophobia is more prevalent in Latvia. The Romanian political scene is quite more moderate, possibly because of looming EU accession.
While there are people like Gigi Becali (leader of the PNG party with no parliamentary representation) who made offensive statements to gays, no governing or mainstream parties have said the things that some Latvian governing politicians have said. This is also the case for ethnic minorities: governing or large parties tend to be very “politically-correct” in this respect.
And while there are nationalist parties, their influence tends to be less pronounced than in Latvia, and even their comments are more moderated (the largest nationalist party, the Greater Romania Party, said that it believes homosexuality was unnatural, but didn’t really make any further inflammatory remarks).
In any case, I hope this stuff doesn’t happen again, anywhere in Europe.
it is said the generation of ~35-40 year old latvians have gotten..irreversibly….
russified..sovietified.i don’t know..they can print as many school geography books proclaiming latvia to be a north European countryas they will!the best point they can have is ignorance,it wouldbe great if it was pragmatism but it isn’t it’s just utterly indifferent ignorance.
what has happened with the scandinavian-like ways latvians used to have before the soviets (ie russians) annexed this place and converted it in an utter shit place?why is this so invisible?why is latvia always so neatly pigeonholed somewhere in the upper end of all those world indices.i mean like number 20 in the world freedom index????why is it different with Estonia?
whom shall i vote for???????????????
the answer could go aproximately like this ‘i don’t think my kids will be born here.’
I dont know what is going on in Latvia, but sitting here miles away, one thing is for sure; I have fallen incredibly in love with your country and someho, Riga is at the top of my to- visit list. Really it is…
This summer I was in Europe, and I found love in an exotic Latvian blonde from latvia. And after a quality summer together, she is back in Riga, and here I am writing this from the otehr side of the Atlantic. I knew three Latvians, and trsut me, one of them was from Russian descent. Was sad that for a country as exotic as latvia, something so unfortunate should happen. The Russian girl did not even seem interested in gettin integrated, and was with the russians all through.
I dont know enough, but somehow, the mother of my kids someday is going to be a latvian blonde, standin 5 11, from the wonderful city of Riga.. damn; I love your country.
I am an Indian, about to do college in the United States, about seventeen, but next eyar, I would be backpackin through the east bloc, and I am dreamin already of Riga, the Jugendstil architecture….!!
Damn it.I want to be in Riga real bad. Counting the days, and after seeing teh world, you guys really ahve the best women….
Long live Latvia and her people….
A genuine Latvia enthusiast….
Shreshth Dugar
guys – the fact that faggots want to march in the streets, and that repsites, bojorites and lembergites unite to pelt them with eggs and maters is beside the point. The point is that homosexuals exist, they are in public every day, and a parade means nothing. Its what the parade stands for – that buggery is normal – is what causes the problems. Most repseaites, lembergites and bojarites have children and they want them to grow up normal – not as catholic pedophiles.
ivan – read the comments above as to what the parade means – perhaps to you it means nothing but to gays its about acceptance in society and all that entails. Its not that buggery is normal, its just that some choose to do so, as some choose also not to do so. It shouldnt matter – its NOT affecting you, your children will not grow up gay, you will not start looking at men in a different light… that kind of thinking is alarmist and plain stupid.
Lastly what the f… are you on about with the catholic pedophiles…we aint talking pedophilia here! You might be mixing up the word pederasts…which Ive never been able to pin down what it means. Seems to be a lump them all together word for anyone that doesnt do it the way you do it.
By the way – Id like to know what the repseaites, lembergites and bojarites and all those opposed in the street marches think about lesbianism? OK in the pornos they watch I suppose but we’re not really talking about that are we – its really the male-male thing we are throwing eggs and sh+t about. Thats why we always talk about buggery and have stick figures with penises as logos? ( end sarcasm)